SPEAKER_02 0:03

Grab your glass and pull up a chair. It's time for your favorite girl's night in.

SPEAKER_03 0:07

Welcome to Pouring and Parenting, where your besties, Sil and Einish.

SPEAKER_02 0:11

We're here to laugh through the chaos. Hello, Poors. Let's start the show. Hey, hey, hey. Welcome back to another episode of Pouring and Parenting. It's your girl Einish. And I'm Sil. And today we have a treat for you all. So, Pourers, grab your drink and hold on tight. We are so excited for today's conversation because we are diving deep into raising kids, intimacy, and marriage, but with the professional, okay? We brought in the ultimate expert to guide us.

SPEAKER_03 0:41

Yes, we have Dr. Tina Schermer Sellers, who is a powerhouse sex and family therapist with over three decades of experience. She's a speaker, a professor, and the best-selling author behind Shameless Parenting and Sex, God, and the Conservative Church.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

Yes. But what we love most is that she's a wife and a mother who gets the real everyday dynamics of family life and the hustle and bustle behind it all. Dr. Tina, welcome to the show. Thank you so much. I'm so glad to be here with both of you. We're so glad that you are here with us. We're so excited for today's conversation. We have a lot to talk about. And Dr. Tina, we are ready to hear your wisdom and your words. And we just want you to reign all over us, just wisdom and help our pourers out there.

unknown 1:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:33

That's fine. Please do it. Okay. So before we get into all the juicy stuff, it's a tradition here on pouring and parenting where we talk about our pours. Okay. So, Dr. Tina, as our guest today, what did you pour?

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Well, I poured some Sedarius cab. This is a winery close to me in Oregon. And I know the winemakers and the winery. And so it's close and dear to my heart. So I poured myself a glass of that, figured we deserved that tonight. And then I always have my handy water bottle right here next to me. So I heard that. Love that. Yes, ma'am.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

So what did you pour?

SPEAKER_03 2:15

I poured a pineapple upside-down drink with the um the white claw pineapple vodka, which is actually really delicious. And Ainish, what did you pour?

SPEAKER_02 2:27

I poured a mug of Servion Blanc. I was gonna use a glass and I I didn't. And that's my answer. So cheers. Cheers, ladies. Cheers. Cheers. Indeed. Okay, moving forward. We do have one hot topic that we will be discussing today. So, Dr. Tina. So, if you ladies can give your input and your insight. Okay, now stay with me, ladies. The downfall of the beige baby aesthetic and Instagram perfect parenting. Like, what is a beige baby? So, this particular trend, parents are pretty much focusing on saying they're over the hyper-focused, aesthetically perfect social media feeds and the sad beige, minimalist nurseries are out, and messy, colorful, realistic family homes are in. So, pretty much parents are over trying to present that perfect. No kids live here, even though you know I have kids, but I don't want you to see that I have kids lifestyle, and they're they're embracing, I have a kid, and if they want to put up that random picture, and I don't know if it's sideways or upside down in their room, I'm gonna hang it up. I'm putting it on my refrigerator. So I it when I would look, when I looked at this trend, to me, it was giving the keeping up with the Joneses, keeping up with the Kardashian vibes. Like you want to maintain that. I know I'm a parent, but I don't want to feel like I'm a parent because they're taking over my life. So what do you what do you feel, Dr. Tina? We'll start with you as our guests.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

You know, I'm right with you, Anish, because that's has been what it has felt like to me. And having some dear ones in my life that are the age of my kids who I've known since they were little. You know, they're like best friends or whatever of my kids, or I have two like bonus nieces who are daughters of my best friend who died 13 years ago. I've watched them navigate this. And it's real. This sense of I'm not like that, but I'm gonna present that it's all neat and clean and yada yada yada. And they are getting really over it. And they're also, I think, noticing that there are a lot of people who are presenting, my kid is a kid, so my kid is two, this is what two year olds do, or my kid is three, or five, or seven, and this is what they do, and celebrating that, and also, and this is the hard stuff that we all do, and letting themselves show themselves being tired or putting their feet up or whatever they're needing to do, or just falling into bed exhausted, or I was up all night, and that those are really getting a lot of appreciation from other viewers, right? And so there's there's a feedback loop that's showing them show the honesty, show the vulnerability, show the truth. And I'm really grateful for that because there's so much to celebrate even in the messy. I often say when my kids grew and were gone, even though chaos was always chaos, I missed the chaos, right? Because it's it's a it's a lot to do parenting, and it happens actually in retrospect, happens very fast. Years ago, there was a podcast called The Longest Shortest Time that was about parenting because it really is that. But I love seeing people show the honesty and also celebrate it, you know, just celebrate it or say, This is the part I'm not so crazy about, you know, or whatever. It feels real, it feels more truthful and and sweet, actually.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

Yes, absolutely. And I'm sorry to hear about your friend, your best friend at that.

SPEAKER_01 5:56

Yeah, but I've I'm so fortunate to get to mother these girls and do some of what their mom would have done and while we both miss her.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:06

Thanks for sharing that. Phil, how do you feel about this trend? So I really appreciate this trend because it is so hard to try to make it seem like everything is just so like picture perfect. And yes, I have kids, but they don't make a mess. And yes, I have kids, but they don't write on the walls and they behave all the time. Like, no, that's not reality. It's not true. And so I I can really appreciate it. I think I've gotten to the point where I really think about where am I gonna put my energy in? Am I gonna really put energy in, all right, guys? Like we have to do this this particular way because this is what society thinks. You know, you know, we're gonna be in the store, we're gonna be quiet. Make sure you're not, you know, being too loud. No, and actually, I remember with my son, we were a stamps club, and he was being a little loud, nothing crazy. Okay, but mind you, we're in a huge warehouse store, it's loud in there. And he just I think he just wasn't having his way. And I remember this lady came to me. She's like, You need to quiet your child. I was like, Oh, he was so little. I just ignored her. I was like, I'm not gonna fight you in this store right now. But he was a kid, he was throwing a tantrum, and not that it was okay for him to be throwing a tantrum, but that's what kids do. And I was like, I'm not gonna be made felt bad about my parenting or whatever, because like there's only so much I can control, there's so much energy I could put into this. It was okay, let's leave, let's go get our groceries another day because people are bothered. Like, no, not not happening.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

Yeah. I would say too that one of the things that gets missed, not only like not being authentic with myself, you know, and being that parent that feels right for me. I'm also missing my kid because, you know, like I liked what you were you were saying, so because when you have a child that's being perfectly their job description, too, right? When they want, they want, and they don't have the cognitive or emotional capacity to always tone that down, right? Nor should we be expecting them to be 30 when they're two, right? That's not fair. And so when somebody does something like that, I'm always like, I think, did anybody ever celebrate you? Because it seems like you're having a hard time noticing that my kid's being perfectly a toddler right now.

SPEAKER_03 8:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:15

You know, like my child deserves being celebrated while I'm also parenting and saying, you know, what can we do? Is there a way we can talk about this with an inside voice? You know, like I'm gonna do things that are helping to parent and teach, but I am not gonna shame. I'm not gonna give the message that you are not worthy exactly as you are. I'm just gonna help you know we're gonna be learning some things along the ways, right? We don't need our bookers. We're gonna be learning some things. And that's just part of being a parent and helping our child develop. But our job, I think, in part is to know what's a developmentally common for every age. So that when they're doing that, it's not a reflection on us. They're just being exactly who they are then.

SPEAKER_02 9:00

I don't 100% agree with that. Okay. Well, that's the only hot topic that we're gonna discuss today. And so thank you, Dr. Tina, for your insight. The wisdom. The wisdom is starting to pour on us already. Okay, so let's move in to the meat of the episode today. So you already I feel like you already tapped into your shameless parenting mode. So there's so much about how we react as parents, and it comes from the blueprint of what we were taught. So, because a lot of parents might be carrying that heavy baggage, like you said, who knows what that woman was going through at the Costco and why she felt the need to react to Sill that way. That could have been heavy baggage that she was carrying and passed it down to Sill. Hey, I didn't, I didn't have to deal with that growing up. So you need to handle that. So without even realizing a lot of parents are doing that. Dr. Tina, do you mind talking about how inherited guilt or generational shame affects the way that we parent today?

SPEAKER_01 10:02

Yeah, absolutely. So let me talk a little bit about the different the way I think about the difference between shame and guilt. So guilt is what I feel when I violate a value that I have. Like if I've learned that lying isn't okay and I go ahead and do it willfully and I get in trouble, I'm gonna, or before I even get in trouble, I might feel a feeling in my gut. And that feeling is guilt. Shame is different from that. Shame is I'm just being myself, you know, however that is, at whatever age. And somebody who I love and who has a lot of power over me and who likesly, likely loves me too, gets really mad at me or slaps my hand away or says gross and makes a funny face and a loud voice. And I don't know why I'm getting in trouble because I was just doing me, right? I was just picking my nose. I was just curious about something in my body. I was holding something heavy and it fell on the floor, right? I was just being me and I got in trouble for being me. And what happens when that happens over and over and over and over again, which it does for many, is I start to believe there's something fundamentally wrong with me that makes me unworthy in some way. And so it's like a cancer. It can grow inside of us. And I'll often say that the first shame that a lot of kids begin dealing with is when their hands are, when they're really infants, their hands are kind of smacking them all over the place. And then somewhere around 10 minutes, they realize they can start reaching for things. At this, they have control over this thing called a hand. And it'll be somewhere between 10 months and 12 months where they'll be either in the tub or getting their diapers changed and their hand is gonna land on their genitals. And that is gonna be a glorious day for them because they're just having the very first little experience of, I've got something really wonderful on my body that feels really good, right? So it's gonna take a little bit before they're gonna get it, put those things together, but they're gonna get it. And if every time someone is witnessing that says, gross, don't, that's gross, that's dirty. We have to wash your hands now, or whatever might be said, which just like you guys were saying, it is not coming from a place of wanting to be mean or to shame the child. It's just that that's what happened to them and that's what they know. That's their instinct, that's their blueprint. As you said, I should that's their blueprint. And or I often think the download that happened, and that's where we parent from. But I want to say that that child is just being perfectly curious, perfectly curious. And what they need, like all the times when they're toddlers and little, just learning that what they need is people to label things for them, right? Eyes, nose, ears. That's your penis. It's a wonderful part of you, or that's your vulva, it's a wonderful part of you. Now let's finish getting you diapered or washed off, drifted, dried off, whatever. We just start labeling. We're not reacting, you know? But if you feel inside a part of you that goes like this, you just need to love on yourself in your own heart and just say, someone who loved me didn't know how to give me what I needed, and that's downloaded into me. I'm gonna learn to take a deep breath, put on a happy face, and then just let myself come to a place before where I can give the child what they need. The labeling or the social circumstance or guidance or whatever it is that they're just like if I was teaching them about their elbow getting in the way, or any other part of their body. It's just a it's a wonderful part of your body. Our body is wonderful, all of it. But if we have lots of shame, we're gonna end up passing that down often unless we're not mindful. And that's really what shameless parenting, shameless parenting, everything you need to raise shame-free, confident kids and heal your shame too. Because as we heal our own shame, we're able to have so much more fun with our kids because we recognize they're just being kids. So we can just give them what they need at that age, which is what that book's about.

SPEAKER_02 13:50

Nice. Oh wow, good. I feel like they answered a couple other questions that I had in my head, but yes.

SPEAKER_03 13:56

I love it. Things that you said just brought me into my own parenting with my son. He just turned on and I know he's curious about his body. I get nervous sometimes when I like pass by his room or go to his room because I know that he's curious. But it's me not knowing how to react and like what's appropriate and what's not appropriate. So that's kind of where my struggle is because it's just like, eek, like I'm not supposed I feel like I'm not supposed to see this, you know.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

It's no, he needs your guidance. He needs your guidance. And what they don't need is for parents to disappear and pretend because nobody else will likely give them the guidance, the loving guidance that a parent can, right? And you're gonna need help with this. Like, I'm not putting this on you, but that's really what that book is for. I mean, it's written birth to two, two to four, four to six, all the way up to 18. And so you literally can go to that section and be like, okay, what's happening in the life of an eight and nine-year-old? And what kinds of things are they getting exposed to? And what do I need to do? And what kinds of conversations do they need, and what kind of books should I be laying or have laying around the house, which ones should I be reading, which ones should, you know, are written that kids are actually curious about it. And those things will all guide you in doing it with your son. And I can't emphasize enough how much kids need parents who are willing to learn and help them along the way, and even be able to say, gosh, you know, great question. I'm so glad you felt safe enough to ask me. I have no idea myself. Give me a second to do some research and we'll come back and talk about it. Okay. I mean, you can just say that with almost anything, like, whoa, that's a great one. I'm just not sure I'm quite ready. Let give me some time and I'll come back to you really soon, like tomorrow, within a couple of days, and we'll we'll have a good talk about this. That's your fall response. But um the average age kids are exposed to porn is nine.

SPEAKER_03 15:54

Oh my God. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

Hello, what they've got handheld computers in their, you know, in their hands. They have handheld computers. They have absolute access. So even if they don't in the home, if they're going to friends' houses, it's gonna happen. And and so it's not about pretending, it's about, oh, sweet P, we need to have a conversation about some of the things that are out there that we don't do in our family, but I want you to know about them because I want you to hear the truth from me, because they are framed as a kind of entertainment. But when we don't know any different, we think that's the way it is. And so I want you to know these things. And that's called media literacy. And I talk about that in the eight to 10 chapter, what media literacy, how we get that as a as a parent, and how we help our kiddos think critically, right? Because understand that we run our economy on making people think certain things, including feeling badly about themselves, right? So that they spend money to do the right thing, get the right thing, get the right look, da-da-da-da-da-da, all the things, right? And so they really need a wise voice. And if you didn't feel like you get that, you are with 95% of the other people in the United States, you're not alone. But you got to do some of your own work so that you can hold them the way you would have wanted to be held, you know, at that age.

SPEAKER_03 17:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

Get the book, ladies and gentlemen. Oh, yeah. Well, and one of the things I was saying to Einish and I when we weren't connected is that a lot of people don't realize, in fact, I didn't realize it when my oldest was going, was grow going through development, but boys have 20 times the amount of testosterone increasing in their body from ages 13 to 15. That changes them dramatically. If you guys are partnered with men or you ha have men that are all grown up, they made it through their adolescence. Ask them what that was like, honestly. Ask them what that was like. Because it's like they went from a bicycle to a rocket ship and no one is telling them what's going on. And you kind of need to say, and there's a there's a book called Um The Male Brain and one called The Female Brain. They're written by like an adolescent psychiatrist and really good. But that was the place where I learned about a boy brain. I didn't have a boy brain, you know, and it really helped me with the younger ones to be able to be like, I just want to let you know there's some really cool, wonderful things that are gonna go on in your body over the next three to five years, maybe a little longer. And some of them are gonna make you feel a little different on the inside. And I want you to understand that because lots of kids aren't getting this explained to them. And then what you'll see is you'll have boys talking about girls like they're objects to be used. And that's not how we feel about humans at all. And so, but I want you to know what's going on because no one's guiding them and they're getting it entirely from the internet and from other people that are feeding it that way. And it's going to violate the values we have in our family about how you treat people. And so I just want to be up front with you. And so if you ever see anything that scares you or makes you feel weird, or even if it's exciting but you don't understand it, I want you to be totally safe and come into me or come into your uncle or your dad, whatever the deal is. And we will help do our best to help you understand so that you can feel like some people who actually know are giving you some info. You know, and you want to capture them, right? If you're just nine, you want to capture them in that time because they hit 13, 14 and their peer group becomes more important to them. And so it's it's a little bit more costly for them to give you a bunch of time. Not for every kid, but for many. And it's again not their fault. They're doing exactly what you do to individuate. But yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 19:35

All right.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

So the male brain.

SPEAKER_02 19:40

Two over here. Yeah. And send one to a friend.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

It it will help. It will help. And and shameless parenting will help too. Because at the end of every little chapter, it says here's the top books books, books for kids of this age. Here's the top books for parents of this age. Here's the top websites for this age. So you literally can call your library and be like, I want these five books. I'm gonna pick them up. And you, you know, you check them out a couple of times if you need to, but you let them sit around the house. Okay. You know, and then you're like, oh yeah, yeah, no, I that's a good book. I just heard about it. I've been reading it. You want to sit and read some of it? Let me know. You know, cash, real casual. So good. So good. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 20:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 20:20

All right, and let's move on to our next question. So, Dr. Tina, so many of us grew up waiting for that one terrifying, formal birds and the bees talk from our parents. But you advocate for something completely different. According to your expertise, how do we shift into making this a continuous casual conversation from toddlers to teenagers?

SPEAKER_01 20:40

Yeah. Beautiful question. Part of it really stands on some of the things I've been talking about. If you understand what your child at a particular age range is, they're naturally trying to accomplish, the tasks that are sort of inerrant in them. And again, these are averages, but inerrantly they're trying to feel some power. They're have some beginning sense of identity. You know, they're doing some things. There, there is going to be particular curiosities that are going to emerge at that age. And so, like I said, the infant is going to be curious about parts, parts, parts, parts everywhere, but their own parts too, you know, and so they want to know names and labels and just how wonderful those parts are. By the time they're three or four, they're really curious about others too. And they're beginning to have a sense of who they are. They're playing dress up and they're kind of learning, you know, and they're like, okay, you be a lion and I'm gonna be a tiger. You're playing identity, and that is also forming around their own bodies, curious about their own bodies. By this point, they can choose to go in their room or in the bathroom rather than on the couch or at the dinner table, touching themselves or whatever. You just can provide that guidance and they'll start to get it. But by five, six, they're also starting to notice other people. So usually within the house, they're saying, Things, but then they're going to start saying things about their friends or whatever. And so we need to have conversations about who owns our bodies. So body autonomy. Like your body is yours. No one gets to touch it without your permission. We go to the doctor together and the doctor will ask and we will be there and we will say yes, or we need to wait a minute or whatever. But also other people's bodies belong to them. And we don't touch them or hurt them or tickle them or whatever without their permission. And if they say stop, we listen. So we're learning body autonomy. So there are different things. So what I say is plan on 100 one-minute conversations, not one conversation. I have yet, and I have talked to many people, I have yet to meet anyone who said, Oh yeah, that one talk I got, that was all I needed, and it was perfectly comfortable. Never happened. So we we teach like we teach about bodies and desires and autonomy and boundaries on all of these things in the way we teach about manners and just all kinds of things. They get a little bit at each age, and it gets more complicated as they get older. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

And that makes so much sense, honestly. Kids are able to absorb their sponges. And so having a hundred one-minute conversations, as you stated, they're gonna hold on to that because that's something that they were interested in already. And they're gonna, okay, well, mom said this a week or two ago. Let me ask her another question and just get another bit of information. So that makes so much sense versus that one hardcore, awkward, weird conversation that nobody wants to have.

SPEAKER_00 23:39

That's always too little, too late, too, often. Exactly. Mm-hmm. 100%. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

I think there's another important thing that kind of it can be easy to miss, but I've just heard this as I've heard adults reflect back on their childhoods, is that when they have a parent that touches on these things as well as other things as they grow up, their trust in that person really grows. So I know I can bring awkward things, weird things, things I don't understand, because they've always just gone, oh, great question. And then we launch into it. They've always appreciated my curiosities or my questions or or even my learning. They thought my learning was good, or that they didn't even need to know, and that I was, you know, like I used to say to my kids, there's no such thing as a mistake if you turn it into a lesson. Sometimes we learn by experience. So if that didn't go the way you wanted, how do you want it to go? And what will you do different next time? Right. It's just, it's being there throughout that they really grow to see you as a resource for them.

SPEAKER_04 24:43

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:44

No, that's it's so I feel like it's on topic. Random thought that I'm having though. I watch a show called Blackish. I'm not sure if you heard about Dr. Tina, but they they really dive into real it, I don't think the show's on anymore, the show's canceled now or whatever. They had their final season, but they had a lot of episodes, and there's an episode that I think she was nine. They it's a mother, the husband and wife, they have four kids, they end up having their fifth kid and they're older age. They have twins, a boy and a girl, the daughter twin, was watching porn at nine, I think, as you mentioned, and mom freaked out. She shamed her, and that was the word that the husband said to her when she told him what happened. He was like, You shamed her. And she's like, I didn't know what to do. She was like, I freaked out. And and the daughter didn't know what was going on. So the whole episode was based around that moment and how were they going to approach that because she was so young and she didn't understand what she was watching. And so they ultimately ended the show with them having a conversation. I don't know if it turned into 100 one-minute conversations, but they did sit down. But it might have from there.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I begin the shameless parenting book with a story of a young family I knew that contacted me one day and they were just like, What have we done? And I'm like, Okay, deep breath, deep breath. You're doing fine. You're doing great. This thing doesn't say anything about something being wrong with you or your kids or anything. It's developmentally on task. Let's just talk about how you wanna do it, you know? And I and I'm just so glad they contacted me first before the flip out. And they had gave themselves some days, they talked about it, and then they sat down with their kid and and had a very different kind of conversation that was loving, but also was able to say, Here's what I'm worried about, you know.

SPEAKER_02 26:36

Yeah, yeah, no, that's that's great. I I feel like I just watched that. So just the fact that you're talking about it and it's even out there for people to see on TV, like producers are getting a hold of it, right? Because TV and and media and entertainment is so prevalent out there. But the fact that you already touched base on it is still in our reading books this year. We're reading books. So we're good. So I I I love I love it. So okay, let's move on to the next question, Dr. Tina. So I feel like you kind of touched base on this, but kids are obviously very famous for being very unpredictable, if you will. And they're dropping bombs at the worst times in public situations and just making us feel uncomfortable for the most part. So if our child does or says something completely off the off the wall or shocking regarding their bodies or relationships, the parent initial emotion is to panic or overreact. So, what is the best way to navigate that moment? Since we just talked about if they do do that, how do we react in the moment?

SPEAKER_01 27:48

You mentioned a couple things, but are there any other and again, it's no that reacting is coming from again that blueprint or that download that you got. You're not bad either. You just didn't get the kind of guidance and gentle, age-appropriate guidance that you needed. And so this all feels big and scary. So even, you know, they drop the F bomb. They're six. I can remember, I can remember dropping the F bomb on my mother in the kitchen when I was six. You know, and that's pretty right on time, timing-wise. You just hear kids are somewhere in that age, you know, and and uh they're going to do what kids do. If we're not prepared for it, right, then it's gonna feel really out of line. If we feel like it's a reflection on us somehow, we're also gonna feel, you know, like something must be wrong. I must have done something or whatever. Just know that kids are gonna be kids. And so that and they're gonna do things. Like they're gonna do things that are inappropriate for a 30-year-old to do. And everyone around is gonna maybe think it's inappropriate. But the thing is it probably isn't inappropriate. It probably is coming from a place of innocence when they do it that first time, unless they already know how to get your goat. And then they're gonna start to do that, you know, to get your goat. Right. But you can say, really, I I'm I heard you say that. I think that's an important thing for us to talk about, but right here in the grocery store isn't the best place. So I want to bring that up later and have a deeper conversation about that, okay? Or, you know, uh, you can use words to explain what you mean. You don't need to call names, you don't need to whatever, whatever, whatever. I understand that you're angry, but you're so bright and so capable. I want you to go in your room and think about how to do that in a way where you say what you mean to say without being hurtful. That's using hurtful language. Okay, so let's just pretend that didn't happen. Take two, go, you know, and you just come up with some things that say to them, we're learning, and I'm here to help you keep learning, you know. And like you guys both have kids with a little bit of age gap, right? Between them. My first two did too. And my oldest was a son, and which wouldn't have mattered, honestly, I'm sure, because I was sassy as anything and I was an oldest. And so, but one time I heard him say that he was gonna, could he uh could he give my give his little sister a lollipop? Well, and then she cleaned their room because they shared a room at that point. And I overheard it and I called him out and I'm like, dude, if you were the little one in this relationship, would that have felt fair to you? And he said, No. And I said, Well, then I need to explain something to you. When you're trying to get something that you want, and because you're older and smarter at this point, you can manipulate to get what you want. And the younger one is gonna do it because you think you walk on water, because you're bigger, whatever. That is what we call an abuse of your power. It happens a lot, but it's not okay in this family. So you have to recognize that you have five years and 40 pounds on your sister. So whatever you offer her has to have felt okay to you if you were that age. You have to be thinking of that person that has lesser power. I did this intentionally because he was going to grow up to be a six-foot-something white blonde male. And I needed him to start paying attention to his power in our household while he was growing up because I knew I was gonna have many conversations with him by the time he was an adolescent. So again, you know, it's a shaping thing that we're doing little by little by little by little. You know, again, one minute.

SPEAKER_02 31:24

Yeah. No, that's that is so powerful. I have the same energy with my boys, being they're gonna be six foot-something black males. And my husband's six, four. Having those conversations with my son are definitely vital. They are.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

They just help them be aware of themselves in context with others, right? And a lot of times we don't give men in particular, but I think women need this conversation too, but we don't give them that awareness. You're responsible for the effect of what you say and do on yourself, but on anyone else that it's being directed to. You have accountability. We need to start teaching that little. Again, it's not because what they want, there's something wrong with what they want. Wanting is human. It's desire, it's how we create, it's there's nothing wrong with it. How we do it has to be steered, directed, thoughtful.

SPEAKER_02 32:18

Yes, yeah. And honestly, it's a lot of dialogue. A lot of dialogue is missing from the household. There are a lot of conversations that aren't that there aren't being had. And being able to embrace those moments with your child, even though you didn't have it as a child. And because I I did I my parents signed the paper to get sex ed in school. So that's just what it was. And no, and we didn't talk about it. Would you learn? Nope. That question never happened. So I hope you learned what you needed to learn. Super common. Yeah. And so big, yeah. Costello, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 32:51

So, Anish, I'm glad you brought that up because I was gonna ask a question. So I do work in education and uh and I I work with elementary school students up to sixth grade, so they're about 11, 11, 12 years old. And I know that they do have those talks with the kids, you know, the the sex ed talk, you know, beginning at fifth grade, so about 9, 10, when they have the the talk about like your body and your body changing. And it was brought to my attention that they are going to change the process of it. So before, or I think to at this moment it's still where boys go to one class, girls go to another class, and you know, they learn about their body parts and all that. But apparently they want to change that and they want to have it all in one. So boys and girls together learning about both everything. And I was like, oh my gosh, I don't know how I feel about that because I remember learning about it, and I was already kind of embarrassed as it was because no one talked to me about it at home. So to now hear it and be there be boys around, like that's probably even I would assume for the girls, maybe even more embarrassed. I know how little boys are at this age, and I could just imagine there might be some boys who are gonna even make fun of the girls because they're gonna learn about what their bodies go through and just kind of have more ammo against them. What is your take on this?

SPEAKER_01 34:13

Well, the reason I think that we have separated them traditionally, it actually wasn't. If you go on YouTube and you look up sex education in the 40s, 1940s, and in the 1960s, we actually had a sex education program until Ronald Reagan. And the kids were together in the the two videos that you'll find, one is 67 or and no, 47 and 62, the kids were together in that classroom. So that was the way it was originally taught. If you grow up that everybody goes through a change from childhood to adolescence to adults, and that it is really a special evolution that we're all going through, and it's an awkward, difficult evolution. We don't tease, we don't put people down. So there has to be a pretty zero tolerance around disrespecting people's bodies or personhood in their development. There's a whole lot we could do to embarrass boys if we wanted to do that. We're not doing that either. We're not doing it because this is an evolution of being human and it's special. It's a pretty wonderful thing. But we here in this school, in this classroom, we will respect each other. And if anybody comes and tells me verbatim what somebody said that was disrespectful, unkind, we're gonna sit down and have a conversation. And if need be, we'll have a conversation with your parents. So we make it zero. We will not have this. Okay. If we set up a safe container by having those conversations first, then we can have conversations about noticing what's different, noticing that girls' bodies are. I mean, if you look at these videos from way back in the day, they go through and show how girls will grow often first before boys. And, you know, and they're still giggling in the classroom, but the teacher manages it. You know, it's just, it can be done really well, but it must be safe, emotionally safe for both of them, which means the boys and the girls don't have in their groups, they don't have more power than the parents or the teacher or the administration. They will step in if they are being, you know, cheeky together or whatever you want to call it. But if if I didn't have confidence, I mean, I that would be a as a parent, I'd be say, tell me how you're gonna create an emotionally safe environment for all kids so that they can be together. Because these are topics where the kids see on TV people taking advantage of each other and exploiting each other in order to get things. That's how we run our economy. How do I know that that isn't gonna happen in the classroom if somebody isn't containing how we behave so that kindness prevails?

SPEAKER_03 36:52

Yeah. Well, I agree 100%. I mean, just because I'm in that environment, I can see kind of things going both ways. Like it sounds amazing. I'm like, oh my gosh, I know the evolution of these kids where it's almost like sometimes the kids run the show and the parents they back up their kids, whether they're right or wrong. And then Adam Adam tries to step in, and now it's like, oh, well, now you're attacking my kid, and blah, blah, blah. So it's kind of it's so difficult to stand up to the bully when the parents don't h hold their own kids accountable.

SPEAKER_01 37:26

The kids are b the parents are bullying. Exactly. That's what you're describing. So the kids parents are bullying. So I in those kinds of situations, I'd say it's not safe. Yeah. It's not safe. And we still have to, I mean, this is where I think admins have to come and be like, if you want to send your kid to an alternative school, do that. But in this environment, these are the 10 values we are going to expect from the parent teachers, the parents, and the kids while they're on campus. And here they are. And here's how we're gonna, and they kind of hold a line because what you're describing is a lack of emotional safety and protection for children in school because the parents are allowed to bully the ad administration and the administration rolls over. I've seen it happen when I was a professor for 30 years. I've watched it happen even all the way up through grad schools where parents get used to being able to threaten suits and all kinds of things.

SPEAKER_03 38:21

Everyone's ready to sue, and so it's just it gets really difficult. There's that a really tough situation that admins and teachers are in because that's right. Before you know it, is you're the one who's picking on the kid. And the kid was not at fault, and it it it gets really rough. And I I have one more question. Um sixth grade, where there was a young boy who would masturbate in class. Okay. And so the teacher called mom, let let her know what was going on. And the mom's reaction was just like, Well, that's what he does. Can you just let him go to the rush gym and finish? So, at what point do we go from okay, like to for to not shame them, but also there's time and a place? And the parent was just kind of like, Well, if that's what he wants to do, let them. But where where do those boundaries come in?

SPEAKER_01 39:06

Yeah, really good question. So we wouldn't let them pee in their seat, right? We would say, your body's telling you something, you need to go before you pee in your seat to the bathroom. Here's the protocol that we use in the classroom. It can be the same thing because we are not here to expose everybody to your bathroom behaviors or to your masturbation, to you touching yourself. That's a private activity that in our culture we do in our room or we do in the bathroom, whether we're home or whether we're whatever. You know, we do it in private spaces. That's our social construct around this. And so I would say to that parent, I'm happy to have you come talk to our counselor about how you can manage this at home if he's having a hard time following boundaries at home. Here at school, we'll have boundaries that just say, if you need to excuse yourself to go to the bathroom for whatever you need to go to the bathroom for, you will do it ahead of time because you don't have the right to expose others to what they have not given consent for, right? That's what voyeurism is. You can get arrested for that, right? We have to teach these things. Again, our kids aren't bad. They just need guidance.

SPEAKER_03 40:18

Exactly. But yeah, once again, and you know, when you have the parents who are just like, well, just it's fine, just let them go to the restroom. Like it's not.

unknown 40:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:28

And again, I think it it really like it's requiring some big time. Like, I don't, we don't even have the money sometimes to have that person to be like, I'm gonna need for you to come in and sit down with our counselor so we can talk about this. Because this in public is against the law. So it's again it's it's practicing something that will be that will cause them to get arrested. And uh again, you just you but the I think it's not the principal needs to have somebody who say that too. The teacher needs to say, we have somebody who manages these things, you know, and helps families. Because again, they're they're showing that they weren't given boundaries either. But how well is it serving us when we have entitled people in power running things?

SPEAKER_03 41:12

Yeah, no, it just it's it's it's awful because you just feel like you're constantly in a losing battle. You know what's right and what's wrong. But when other people want to be like, well, just let them do it, it's fine. Or now we're against the child. Now it's our fault. It's like, come on. But okay, but what is this?

SPEAKER_01 41:30

Yeah, it it produces something in the children in time that doesn't serve them and it doesn't serve their relationships. And unfortunately, it is how we're running some of our corporations. So it could serve them in that way. Nobody wants to be in relationship with them, however. Right. All right, well, thank you for answering those questions. Yeah, I know these are tough.

SPEAKER_02 41:51

Ooh, that was heavy. Yeah. But thank you, Dr. Tina. We appreciate those answers. So we're gonna take a little break and um lighten the mood a little bit before we jump into the second half. Dr. Tina, this was a great first half of the show. Listen, gems are being fallen from the sky, ladies and gentlemen. Shameless parenting, get the book. Dr. Tina is spitting fast. So let's jump into this mid-break portion of the show. Dr. Tina, we're gonna ask you a few questions. Okay. And we're calling this one minute with Dr. Tina. So we specialize in this just for you. And just three questions and a quick answer. You don't need to go into details or nothing fancy. We don't need to know all your business. But to just get us ready because the next half of the show, ladies and gentlemen, we're gonna be talking about intimacy, marriage, and we're gonna move into that part part of life. Dr. Tino, are you ready? I'm ready. All right, let's do this. What is the best or most fun date night you and your husband have had recently?

SPEAKER_01 43:00

Well, I have to think about the ones I can actually talk about. So we might have a little slow little piece there, but I think was it was pretty spontaneous. Now we're we are in that phase of life where we don't have littles around unless our grandkids are over. So and how the life. It is, yeah, come, you guys, try not to rush it. I mean, it will come and it is great for the things that you can't do when you have littles around, you know. And so pretty spontaneously we were like, I feel like barbecue. Yeah. And we have a really good barbecue joint in our town. We live in a tiny rural town. Like, let's go. And we just had a great it was just a great night and pars probably partially because it was just so spontaneous and it was uh starting to be it was a beautiful spring day. It was getting really warm. We live in the Pacific Northwest, so we have to wait for spring and summer to come. And uh it was just a great it was a great time. We had a a great wait staff person that we were goofing around with and um it was just a lot of fun. Yeah. Pretty simple.

SPEAKER_03 44:00

Spontaneous, though. That was the key word there. You know, I can't wait to be able to do spontaneous things. Again. That don't include the kids.

unknown 44:08

Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 44:10

All right. Our next question. What is one household chore or habit that you two will simply never agree on?

SPEAKER_01 44:16

We have a slew of them. I'm really industrious and a planner and doer. And he's more my spontaneous guy, you know, thinks of things at the last minute, that kind of thing. And uh, and so when I get a hankering to do something or I want, I want to move on it yesterday, and he wanna move move on it, you know, six months from now. And so we go round and round. And so what we had to settle on was if he's gonna lead a project, I let him lead it. He hires all the people. It might take 10 years. But if I want a project and I want it done, then he will let me be basically the general manager on it. And I hire the people and do things and I run things by him, but and he does the same. But we're not plan, we're not expecting each other to move at the pace the other one does because we just don't. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 45:07

I feel you growing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:09

I'm the planner over here, and my husband's stress is my life.

unknown 45:13

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 45:14

Let's do it right now. We should have done it five months ago. Why'd it take me so long to think about it? Why weren't you in my head five months ago to let me know that I wanted this today? Is how I move. Okay. I got you. Let's go. Let's go, go, go. And he's like, no, we're hiring somebody. That's my husband. Let's hire somebody. Anyway, that's not anyway. Let's move on. The last question. I switched it up a little bit. So, who is your favorite actor and what is your favorite movie?

SPEAKER_01 45:41

Oh my goodness. I'm terrible at this kind of thing. So usually when I'm watching something, I'll I'll have, you know, like, what's the name of that actor? Because I really like him. But I was just saying to it's my daughter and her fiance were over there the other night. They were over for the weekend, and we were talking about Ryan Gosling. And I know that is so like everyday because everybody loves Ryan. But we were talking about how funny he is. And I had watched recently watched just a string of interview conversations where he was trying to kind of throw his interview partner off. And they were so funny, and they were so funny. And then there's the twinkle that he gets in his eye, and this kind of twitch in his lips, and it just makes me crack up every single time. So I just think I love everything he's in because he's got this little look of mischief all the time. And I love that. I love mischiefness. Yes, yes. Do you have a favorite movie?

SPEAKER_02 46:35

Uh anything Ryan Gosling's in?

SPEAKER_01 46:37

No. Yeah, right. No. I love Barbie, of course. I mean, just really anything. I don't know. There, this is gonna sound pretty funny, but uh, there was a movie version of Much Ado About Nothing. Emma Thompson was in it and Bronau, I can't think of his first name right now. And I I just love that movie. It's it's filmed in Tuscany. It's it takes me a minute to get the to follow the Shakespearean, you know, kind of English. But then I do and I kind of fall into it, and I've probably seen it 15 times and I just love it.

SPEAKER_00 47:07

Oh wow. I just love it.

SPEAKER_01 47:08

Yeah, I just pulled it up right now.

SPEAKER_02 47:09

There's Keanu Reeves, Kenneth. Yes, Kenneth Reno. There it is. Emma Thompson, Denzel Washington is in there, Michael Keaton. Yep, uh, Kate Beckinsell. What's a it's a whole slew of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 47:24

Yeah, it's really wonderful. It's it's it's a fabulous movie. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 47:30

Put that on my watch list. Okay. Well, you you made it. You survived, Dr. Tina. That was it. You survived our our mid-show break and with poise and in class. Great answers. I'm a Ryan Gosling fan. That is a handsome young man. He looked good. So, ladies and gentlemen, we're gonna jump back into the show, the second half of the show, and we're going to spend this second half talking about intimacy and marriage and all those fun things because we spent the first half about raising shame-free kids, and we're gonna focus on the foundation in the household. Yeah, Dr. Tina. It's so easy for couples to slide into the roommate phase. And we're talking, we're co-managing the house. Did you pay the bill? Yep. And we're moving on about the day. How do we transition our brains from mom and dad mode and get back into husband and wife mode at the end of a grueling day or grueling week?

SPEAKER_01 48:35

That's a really great question. I guess I want to just pan back for a quick second and say, understand that we live in a culture that emphasizes being a good parent, like we were talking about at the beginning, like you know, like do it this way, blah, blah. And then all this stuff about career, right? But parenting, being the right kind of parent, and then career. But nowhere do I see emphasis on how you build a strong relationship and how you keep that relationship going. It's just not there. So I just want to say if you're losing the grip on that, it's because no one is focusing on it. Churches don't focus on it that I know of, you know, like really. And the thing is that we have research to show that if a relationship is solid, just peaceful, there's trust in the relationship. People are talking to each other respectfully. Then when kids go to school, those that have calm, relatively happy environments are cognitively doing better than kids who are going to school worrying about people not being okay. People are fighting, people are whatever. So it's like they've got a little white noise machine that's turned on, and that is interrupting the information's ability to find a way, a place for it inside their brain. So we know that solid relationships, solid adult relationships are what is the foundation of kids learning from that point forward. So we have to make it a priority, but our culture does not make it a priority at all. So what and I did this with my own when my the first ones had their babies, so the oldest is eight now. I said, listen, I will do whatever it takes to support your marriage because that's the best way I can support your parenting. So I want to talk about come six months in with this baby. How do we institute something? So every month something's happening. So one month, month one, parent one goes away for a weekend. Maybe I come in and help out. Month two, second parent goes away for a weekend. Month three, once they're ready, you're both going away to remember why you like each other. Because believe me, you are going to be eyeballs deep in poo and not sleeping. So you're gonna forget. So you need to go away. And then on that fourth rotation, basically, you guys decide. Does somebody need to go with a friend or alone? Or what do you need to do a family event that you can all look forward to? Or what do you need? But I want to help you keep your marriage in view because it will end up being so important to the health and wellness of your family, as well as you being able to weather this becoming a parent thing and weather the the kids' launching phase if you've kept it in view, which means we have to do things. We can't just talk about it. We've got to actually do things that, and so it means figuring out who your village is, who are those people that can step in, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We've got to get that in place. And I worked with them a lot in that first year to figure out what it was gonna look like. And then every year since then, it's gotten easier and easier, and they're really good at it, and they're doing really well. But I didn't have that, and I knew that's what I needed when my kids were little. And then working with people for years and years and years, I could see that those that had support to keep their marriage in view, do things fun, enjoy fun together, sleep if they need to, but do those things that they just did a whole lot better. And they also had more fun. They enjoyed their kids and they enjoyed each other. So there's more fun. And believe me, that just lifts the spirit, right? If you've got fun happening.

SPEAKER_04 52:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 52:24

Preach. It's hitting my soul. It's difficult. I move a lot. It's hitting my soul because we move a lot. In our in our previous discussion, we we spoke about that. And it's it's difficult. But my husband and I are are we muddling through it and we we're finding ways to to connect and to reconnect. And we're doing the best we can. We're we'll still marry 10 plus years later. We did it, we're doing it.

SPEAKER_01 52:48

Yeah, and if you keep the conversation going, which is part of it, you know, like how what does it mean to adjust it? You know, do we need a big calendar to work with, or what do we need to do? Let's try something new to keep us in view. And you try out things and you hold on to the ones that work, and you let, and then when they stop working or whatever, you let go, you find new things, but it needs to be top of mind awareness. Don't lose it. Yes, you know.

SPEAKER_02 53:13

And I think that's the biggest thing is losing it. That's the biggest thing.

SPEAKER_01 53:17

Well, and I I'll often say, and I wish this was like on billboards, your relationship is organic. It's like a garden, right? You can tend to a garden throughout seasons, and that garden won't feel that difficult because you're doing a little bit all the time. If you ignore it, where I live, it turns into a forest. And then you're having to do a whole lot of work 15 years later, right? To clear the land, to get back to the soil, all of that. And this is where we see people go, I fell out of love or I just da-da-da-da-da whatever. And and I I know it feels like a lot of work, but starting all over isn't easy either. And having a two-home family isn't easy. That's a verb for the rest of your life. It's like it's all it things are things worth having and having them be good are going to be worth investing in. And your marriage is one of those things. Yes, it is.

SPEAKER_02 54:10

And you are one of those things. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 54:12

Pouring to ourselves. Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 54:15

Yeah.

unknown 54:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 54:16

Beautifully said. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:17

Oh my gosh. I'm just like, tell me more. Hey, Dr. Tina, a lot of moms find it incredibly hard to just turn off that mental load when the bedroom door closes. That's there's this invisible weight of everything we have to do tomorrow. How can women give themselves permission to completely just drop the guilt, shut down the to-do list, and actually show up for their own pleasure and connection? Yeah. Great question.

SPEAKER_01 54:41

Well, one is understand first off and foremost that 60% of women have what we call responsive desire. That is not spontaneous desire. Spontaneous desire is I'm going grocery shopping, I'm getting some potatoes, some strawberries, and then I think sex. Yes, that's it. That's what I want. Right? That's spontaneous desire. I'll do. I'll find that on ILT. Exactly. 60% of women over a six after a six-month relationship are going to be responsive, which means if her head is going, oh, did I get the the lunch is made for tomorrow? Oh, shoot, there's this thing I gotta do. I gotta that man of load is going on, she's not switching anything very easily, right? So she actually needs time. So she may, they may need to have a conversation like, okay, I want you to be off duty by six o'clock. I'm gonna do dinner, I'm gonna do bathtime, and I'm gonna put kids to bed. I want you to go do whatever is gonna feel yummy to you. Take a bath. You might need to get things, some things off your list, but I really want you to just have some time when you feel like your head can clear. Okay, that's step one. Step two is we have to have some very real conversations about what good sex is and isn't. Okay. If you're in a heterosexual relationship, often it's defined by intercourse, what men want to do often. But women, like many things, sometimes they're so tired, they just want to be held or they want to sit in the bathtub and have a glass of champagne and have you sit right there with them. There's a whole lot of things that for them feel like connection and pleasure. I say my definition of good sex is both people, at the end of whatever they decide to do, feel more connected to each other and have shared some fun and pleasure with each other. It cannot look like the same thing every time because I promise you she will get bored, right? And I I work really hard to help men understand this. Like if the roles were reversed, would you want to be penetrated every single time? And that was expected? You probably wouldn't, right? Well, that's where she is. She wants lots of things. And it's not that she doesn't want that sometimes, because she really does, but there's gonna be lots of things. Are you talking about connection and pleasure and what you have the energy and desire for today, this day, that whatever it is. And then you have to work to get yourself in the place where you can transition to, I wanna enjoy pleasure. And I mean, I have to be really honest. It's really nice if you've got somebody that's like, hey, I'll do whatever it takes for you to be able to feel my love, because that's more important than what we do is that you feel and that you're able to open your heart to it and show me that you're loving this. And we have to have lots of conversations about that. And again, one more thing really important to our lives, connection and pleasure, that we spend zero time on as a as a as a country, you know, and yet it's fundamentally important. It's about our attachments, you know, it's fundamentally important.

SPEAKER_02 57:47

Yes, and tapping into that, tapping into that space and and making sure that your partner understands that they also need to help you tap into that space to take that load off. Yes. And you have so much going on in your brain, I'm not doing nothing. Put some on me so we can come together and that's right in the middle. So that's exactly what it's like. A preach.

SPEAKER_01 58:07

Yeah, you bet. And you know, is there again the way that we often are raising boys, they can get to this place where they're expecting and da-da-da-da-da-da. That's that's not sexy. That is not turn a partner on that somebody expects them. It feels like obligation, and nobody wants their relationship to turn into transaction and obligation. That's like cleaning toilets. Like, we don't really want that, but we've got to have a different kind of conversation that is, yeah, you know what? Helping me switch gears is gonna be on you. Like I we're gonna have to come up with things, and yeah, it is gonna be on you because this is going. This is going because I've fully taken on that role of manager here, and I don't turn it off well. And I'm gonna need your help. And yeah, you're gonna have to either help or not get it. Not get what you want from me. You're not gonna get me showing up being excited if you didn't help.

SPEAKER_02 59:03

Yeah. No sexy time.

SPEAKER_01 59:04

Because I'm thinking about the doctor's appointment or it's whatever the case is. A lot of women feel bad for that, but I'm like, baby, understand how you're wired. You are fine. You are fine. If you've got somebody who's like, I'll do whatever it takes, you go in there whenever you do whatever whatever it takes. I will do whatever it takes if I can help you show up to receive love and pleasure and touch. And then I'm like, good, okay. Then you'll work with me, not feeling like I want to do much of anything. Well, fine. Then how can I hold you? How can I whatever, make you feel safe, help you feel my love? That's what it's about. Thank you. Okay. And we'll get somewhere that way.

SPEAKER_04 59:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:44

That's so imperative what you're saying. The emphasis on making sure that you have a partner that's willing to help you receive what they're trying to give you. Because ultimately, I don't think the men are feeling selfish. That's just how their brains are wired to want to do, hey, that's what I do. You like it, I think you do. And you know, they're thinking with their man brains.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:04

But the fact that we're how we raise them. We can't criticize them for that. We raise them that way. Our porn is that way. It's that it's all about them. So we give them really nothing to know how to really love a woman. We have to craft that together, you know, and he has to be willing. But you are absolutely right, Anish. He wants to be the one that lights your fire and he can see it. Like nothing is more erotic to a man than seeing, like, oh, I made her do that, I made that happen, you know? And he's gotta, he's gotta coax it. He's gotta, you know, start the fire, he's gotta blow on whatever it takes, you know. He's gotta do the things that are gonna get it going. And uh and also appreciate how much you're managing. It's a lot. Yes. And he benefits from that too, you know. And so the men that take that on are like, I got you. I got this because I want to see that spark in you and whatever it takes. And if you're not up for it today, we'll do it another day. We got a lot of days ahead, and they're just right with you. Then you start to relax because you feel really safe with this person. And you're much easy, it's much easier to access your desire for pleasure if you feel safe. Right. I love all of these words coming out of your mouth.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:20

I'm just thinking of it. I was like, you know, I think my husband's that guy. He'll like he takes in, he'll take it in, like, oh god, here you girl, and then he'll make adjustments. Like he he he listens and he learns and he he applies it.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:32

Nice, beautiful. I love what you're saying. We love that.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:36

Okay.

unknown 1:01:36

Right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:38

All right. So kind of going into um what we've been saying, you know, the elephant in the room sometimes, or in the bedroom, we should say, is the desire mismatch. So when one partner's libido is completely different in a different place than the others, resentment can build fast. So how do couples navigate this gap without one person feeling rejected and other feeling pressured?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:01

Well, there might be feelings of rejection because again, there's lack of understanding. If she feels like I've I've got to turn on when I don't feel like turning on, then she's trying to force herself into something and it's not going well, right? She's feeling angry, resentful. I don't like this, why am I forced? She's got this thing going on. And then he's, what's wrong with my wife? Why doesn't she? All of that thinking is actually not helpful. The desire mismatch is where are you guys right now? And what can you desire together that is going to lead to more connection and more shared pleasure and more fun? That's intimate, right? It doesn't, there's not an assumption of what we're gonna do, but there's an assumption that whatever we do is not the kind of things we do with anybody else. Okay. It could be all kinds of things. I sometimes have people put butcher paper on the back of their bedroom door and write things that help them feel connection and pleasure. Each person has a different color marker, five minutes that take five minutes, 15 minutes, half an hour, an hour, a full day, a full weekend, and they're writing down the things that really work for them. And then they're saying, What do I have energy for? I only have five minutes today. I really feel like my brain is like, and that might be true for that, and it also might be an indicator that I've got my life a little out of whack and I need to work to rebalance, right? Taking care of myself better, putting the mask on myself better so that I have more for myself and for my partner and for my kids, right? Was first it's got to start with you, right? So mismatch is a usually a much more complex thing. But the research that's been done, what they found out was with couples that had significant desire mismatch, is that somebody, at least one of them, but often both of them, are not really enjoying the sex they're having. They might be having it, but they're not enjoying it. And that's what's killing desire, is because they're having transactional sex. And as soon as they could get themselves doing things that they both can go, yeah, I could feel more connected to you and share pleasure with you if we did that today. They and they start to feel safe that they can say that. I always say you'll never get a real yes for somebody from somebody until they first know a hundred percent that they can say no to you. And there's not going to be any punishment, any distance, any bad attitudes, any anything. Because if there is, you never are gonna get a true yes. They've got to be able to say no and be like, okay, we don't want to do anything that you don't want to do. We don't want to do anything either one of us don't want to do. And as soon as I know I can say no, then I know I can say yes to. Right? Can't ever get a real yes if you can't say a no. So it's working together better and getting out of your assumptions of what should be happening, you know, and build what you actually want for this phase when your kids are this age and this age, and this phase when your kids are this age and this age, you know?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:00

So ultimately reconnecting is finding a place that the both of the partners can come together and reconnect. My husband and I did premarital counseling, and one of the things to date that I thought that I took hardcore with me was that if we get in an argument, they said to sit down and touch each other, have some type of connection, hold hands and discussing why you're frustrated. But just that energy that you're going to just help you to reconnect and just calm the nervous system.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:32

Because I like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:34

That's beautiful. One of the things I've had couples do is I call it the three-minute hug. And I'll say, You're doing this without words, except for can I hug you? You know? And I say, give yourself the full three minutes, pull each other in close, match your breathing. So maybe you're inhaling at the same time and exhaling at the same time, or inhaling while the other is, you know, exhaling, whatever you want, but just match your breathing because that actually is going to match. Your heartbeat. So in that first and second minute, just get there, get there, lower your shoulders, feel your person's body next to you, breathe together. Right. So that's minute one, minute two, minute three. Imagine that on the in-breath, you're taking in your partner's love. And on the out breath, you're sending love into your partner's body. And you do that for a full minute. And then in that end of that third minute, then you just pull away enough to lock eyes. You're not going to say anything, but you're going to just kind of say, I love you with your eyes. I'm here. I'm here. You're my person. You're the one I chose. Right. And I always say, you'll know that it's been three minutes because by three minutes, you'll have either a child or a dog or both between you. But sometimes just doing that every day at some point. It's amazing how the wet towel on the bed doesn't bug you as much anymore, or the this doesn't bug you because you feel connected. You feel attached. So that touch is it's mysterious, but it's super important energetically.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:03

I love it. I feel like you just validated me when I was younger when my husband and I first met. Like I was like, yeah, like 19. I I can't believe I'm gonna admit this. I used to like try to breathe with him. Yeah. When I was 19, and I was like, So are you judging me? No. No. No, I used to take in breaths with him. He didn't know that I was doing this. But I used to like just breathe with him and like, you know, just lay on his chest and breathe with him. I feel like, you know, I was wiser beyond my ears and I need to. You bet.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:32

No, energetically, you were listening, you were listening with your heart and your body because your body and your heart know this to be true. That that kind of touch and opening yourself and just letting yourself feel and breathe with. There's all kinds of neurobiological things that happen in the energetic space of that with your partner that we haven't ever quantified because we don't do that kind of science. We do science that's observable. And this is often not observable at the deep level of what's happening. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:04

He's the only person that I did that with because we broke up and got back together, broke up and got back together together again. But he was the only person that I did that with even after dating other men. Um I knew he was my husband at 19. It took him a minute to figure out that I was gonna be his wife. But I was doing that. So yeah, you were the wise one. Okay, validation. I needed that. No, that that is so oh my goodness, Dr. Tina, what a what a gem you are right now with helping our listeners. Okay, Dr. Tina, we have one more question, probably two more, but let's move on with for the parents, for the parents that are listening out there who are in the thick of it. They are fighting for their lives, they're trying to stay afloat, and perhaps they have multiple kids, sports, and they just can't find the time. They're trying to figure out what can I do to make this work? What are some micro moves or just small daily habits that they can practice to stay intimately connected? I think right now is something that you just mentioned. Um, but are there any other like just practices that they can in just put in their lifestyle right now?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:11

Yeah. I would say find time to do that hug at some point each day. Also find time for yourself, whatever that is. It could be a 10-minute walk. It can be taking your coffee and just going into your bedroom. It can be whatever feels like this is what I need to kind of take a deep breath and focus in. For some, it's like learning to meditate and getting up a little early and just sitting by themselves or walking in the woods or wherever you are and hearing the birds and noticing the world waking up. You know, it's something that connects you with that which is bigger than you. And again, for your nervous system, for your body mind, you want to notice you first. Feel great your gratefulness, right? Connect deeply with yourself for some amount of time. So those are two things you could start doing. And I know I can hear it already. I can hear people go, I can't, I can't. Well, honey, if you don't, this is gonna come back and bite you and you're gonna wish you figured it out. Because you know what? You can say no. That might be the most important word in your vocabulary. No to your kids and no to your partner, in order to say yes. You know what? We were raising kids a whole long time before we had school the way we're doing it, sports the way we're doing it, all of the camps the way they were doing it, all of the baloney, right, that we think is so important. We were raising really good humans on farms and before that in the woods, right? And what they needed was love and structure and emotional safety. And they need that no. Sometimes it's like, oh, I'm bored. I don't know. Put that thing away, put that tablet away. Being bored is an uncreative mind. Get creative, go solve your problem. There is so much beauty and amazing things in that world. You go figure it out. You go outside and play for 10 minutes or whatever it is, but you say no and you ask your kid to show up to themselves, to think without you doing it for them. That's not gonna help them be creative. And they're saying that the kids that are being born right now, the three things they're gonna need are emotional intelligence, creativity, and compassion. And curiosity was another one that came up in another one I was reading. How are you cultivating compassion, curiosity, creativity, right, in your children? How are you cultivating those things? Because if you're doing for them everything they can do for themselves, trust me, they're only learning how to rely on other people and not think for themselves. Not going to be helpful to them. Preach.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:43

Yeah, we we discussed that not that long ago about literally letting your your children be bored. That's probably the best thing for them sometimes. That's right. Yep. For all those reasons that you said. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:53

My kids tease me about it now. They're like, yeah, all we remember you hearing is solve our own problem. Solve our own problem. If you got a problem, I can solve it. I can ask for help. But if it's something I can do myself, I am smart enough to figure things out, you know? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:08

Yes, yes, and yes. Man, the gems you're dropping, Dr. Tina. Like, like Sil said, we literally had an episode about that and validation. The fact that you you're so knowledgeable and you are so educated and you you know your stuff. And we we just appreciate it. So thank you so much. Um, this has ultimately been a master class, absolutely, for our poorers. And we hope the poorers out there that you had a notebook out. If you didn't re-listen to this episode and pull your notebook out, take some notes, write down all the gems that Dr. Tina was talking about. And Dr. Tina, if you can just give one golden rule to married couples who are struggling to find their spark again while raising a family, what would that be?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:03

First, I'd say be kind and loving to yourself and each other because this is a hard, this is a time where a lot is being asked of you and a lot feels uninsecure. A lot is changing culturally. And so that makes our foundation feel a little bit, you know, tenuous. So, first, give yourself a lot of love and grace because things are hard and you don't have to do it. There's no such thing as doing it perfectly. We are radically valuable, every single one of us. We're born that way. And we are radically imperfect. We're on a journey, we're learning. So be kind to yourself first. And then just ask yourself, what can I do kind to me today? And what can I do kind to my partner today? Just a little something that says, I notice where we are, we're good, and this is hard, but look how strong we are, right? Just one day at a time, right? And and then when you can sit down and look at your calendar, figure out where you can have a little more fun. Beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:58

Pouring into ourselves, into our couples, our partners. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:02

Yeah. All right. And before we go, Dr. Tina, really quickly, uh is there anywhere you can recommend our pourers to find you or to read your books?

SPEAKER_04 1:14:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:13

So Sex God in the Conservative Church, erasing shame from sexual intimacy is good for anybody who grew up in a home that was inadvertently pretty shaming about bodies and sexuality or silent in some way that gave some sense of being shamed. And it will explain how America got here, what were the forces involved, how do you heal, and then how do you bring a sense of your own spirituality or whatever to yourself and to your relationship? So I sort of just give you the overview. And then shameless parenting, everything you need to raise shame free, confident kids, and heal your shame too, was written for all the people that came to me and kept saying, I know what not to do now because I read your first book, but I don't know what to do. Can you help me? So I wrote that book. And those books you can find on Amazon if for any, or you can ask any local bookseller to get them for you if they don't have them. If for anybody that wants to do that work for healing and being able to free themselves of shame and do it differently, change the legacy for their kiddos or the little ones that they're involved with, whose lives they're involved with, and they can't afford the books. You can DM me on Instagram at Dr. Tina. So D-R-T-I-N-A shameless. So S-H-A-M-E-L-E-S-S. And just let me know what's up. And then I will send you a free promo code to get an audio version of either one of those books. I want people to know they can do this work, heal themselves, and change the outcome for themselves and for their kids, or even be a different kind of force in their community. So I'm here for that. You can follow me on Dr. Tina Shameless. I also have a lot of free things there. You can go to Tina SchermerSellers.com. I have other things there. And if you want to get a just for fun, get a little peek into what my life looks like. I have an Instagram called um, what is it? Oh, it's the underscore Swedish underscore ya. So Y-I-A-Y-I-A. The sweet, the the Swedish Yaya. And you can just look, I have a very normal life, but I've got this is what life after your kids are gone for some can look like. And we live on an eight-acre piece of property and we grow our own food and we play. And I take a lot of the things that I've said today very seriously in my own life. And it's messy and it's fun. And I wouldn't have it any other way. So I just send lots of love to your listeners. Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:45

All right. Thank you so much for joining us, Dr. Tina. Poor's go grab her books, find her on Instagram. It's, I'm sure it'll be absolutely game changing. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:56

And to everyone listening, keep pouring into your kids, but don't forget to pour into your marriage and into yourself. Thank you for listening to another episode of Pouring and Parenting. Where sip happens and we pour about it.